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Talk:T.A. 3018-3019
Maybe you should also add what the lost isles (Beleriand's Remnants) are doing. Obviously Maglor is their leader now, or would you want me to add that here? Moran half valar (talk) 18:29, May 7, 2015 (UTC) :You man like Himling and Tol Fuin and the Isles of the Dead that live? I´ve added most of them from the Lindon gazetteer...--Haerangil (talk) 18:33, May 7, 2015 (UTC) I have this listed for the best heroes of the 7 good factions: *Gondor - Gandalf *Rohan - Theoden *Eriador - Elrond *Rhovianion Forests - Galadriel *Dwarf Kingdoms - Durin VII *Blue Cult - Alatar *Lost Isles - Maglor Now for evil's best heroes, I am coming up short: *Mordor - Sauron *Isengard - Saruman *Angmar - Witch King *Misty Mountains - Balrog of Moria *Men of the East - *Men of the South - *I don't know what the last faction should be nor the hero, can you help me out Haerangil? Maybe Men of the South could be Suladan? Moran half valar (talk) 18:36, May 10, 2015 (UTC) Also, Angmar and Eriador are just representing Middle Earth's early Third Age, they wouldn't take part so much in WOTR. Moran half valar (talk) 23:19, May 10, 2015 (UTC) Maybe add Alatar to the evil Men of the East and leave Pallando with Blue Cult On or whatever? Moran half valar (talk) 03:08, May 11, 2015 (UTC) :I´d leave the decision open to any GM. It´s only tales and rumours what people hve heard about them... maybe the players can find out the truth, but it`s GM's choice to define what is true and what not.--Haerangil (talk) 10:35, May 11, 2015 (UTC) Well what is the main reason that Alatar is evil? Also, do you have any notes that tell what Valar Pallando followed? Moran half valar (talk) 16:31, May 11, 2015 (UTC) :It´s all fanfic... All that MERP says is that both survived the War of the Ring and became rivals over the east in the fourth Age.The rest was invented by various authors, the Story of alatar's fall is from a Total War MOD, the story about Pallando on the amazon Isle is from a GM called incánus, another GM who rewrote the Palantir quest campaign also used Alatar as an evil character.So it's all just rumours and legend... it could well have been the other way around.There´s also a german fanfic book called the fourth Age which deals in detail with the ithryn luin, but i coundn't get it yet... it's a hard-to-find out-of-print rarity.But as already two sources stated that Alatar was the one who fell i took them into account for the wiki.It´s also quite questionable how in detail alatar fell... as Tolkien stated that none of both had a fate like Saruman's... there's still the possibility that Alatar wasn't completely corrupted and repented, just as the story about Pallando's death may just be a fake or illusion.But maybe there's another hint in the hierarchy of the Heren Istarion Saruman and Alatar were of the first... and Gandalf was lower in rank as he was originally number 3.This may hint to the fact that Alatar already had failed during the War of the Ring, as Gandalf succeded Saruman as the White Wizard. But that#s educated guessing after all...As for their affiliations Alatar is clearly from Orome's people... for Pallando is not that clear... one Tolkien quote calls him a servant of Orome, another one of Mandos, and he was also affiliated with Nienna.That's not necessarily a contradiction as he might have had ties to two or more Valar same for Gandalf who was chosen by Manwe but had ben a pupil of Este so he also had affiliations to two Valar.However ICE chose to concentrate on his affiliation with Mandos, making him the dark Prophet of Doom and his friend alatar a Warrior and wild Hunter.I can see why they wanted to have both Wizards distinct personalities.--Haerangil (talk) 18:05, May 11, 2015 (UTC) Oh I agree with everything you stated, thanks for such detail! Do you know the title of the German book about the 4th Age? I may be able to find it for you...maybe. Also, this is just educated guessing as well, but do you feel there are any Melkoric Cults in the Third Age--enough to make up another rival evil faction? Or something in the Dark Lands? Moran half valar (talk) 16:11, May 12, 2015 (UTC) :I think it was called "Das vierte Zeitalter" By louise b. Lother.Mwlkoric or Sauronic cults... good question, I guess there were, but not openly in the reunited Kingdom. also it#s quite possible that they were more watered down...as there was no dark lord left in Arda.But Satanic Cults... quite possible. The dark lands... I don't think they played a greater role... the telcontari still had to rebuilt heir ancient kingdom...and i don't know how far they would extend their empire south or eastwards... but I doubt they ever felt like pushing their borders beyond near Harad (because of the great desert) or the Rhunaer (the steppes).If the haven of umbar turned into a major sea-power under Telcontari rule there may have been some contact to the utter south and maybe the continent beyond.However we have to keep into mind that the world of the fourth and fifth age would slowly shift into our real pre-historical and earlyest-historical world--Haerangil (talk) 19:26, May 12, 2015 (UTC) So in your opinion Haerangil, is there any other faction that was a rival to Sauron. I mean, if we go by what this wiki says--The Balrog, Saruman, and Alatar are all rivals being independently out for their own goals. Is there someone else like this who could represent another faction? I mean Suladan for the Men of the South and the Witch King are both fanatically allied to Sauron. Were there any other black numenorian settlements besides Umbar? That would be against Sauron? Or remnants of Morgoth? Moran half valar (talk) 17:32, May 13, 2015 (UTC) :good question... without the one ring Sauron still wasn't the ruler of the world, despite what beutiful titles he gave himself... his empire certainly was the greatest realm in middle-earth, but there were rebel realms and uprsisings of all kinds...the ithryn luin machinated them but there alos were the eastern dwarves, Dark Elves, Wild men...there may have been also maiar with intentions on their own, fallen or not.I also think of the court of ardor or its possible remnants.--Haerangil (talk) 16:01, May 14, 2015 (UTC) Hmmm, that sounds like a good idea. Court of Ardor remnants, but they wouldn't be based in the South since Sauron basically takes it all back by the War of the Ring. I don't know, what would you say is the most relevant of the last remaining evil factions? You say Ardor, but Ardana is dead, who would lead them--Jaanainen? She is around in the Third Age still. Or Cambragol? Maybe someone from Loremaster series? I don't know but if you have any ideas let me know, cause I am creating my own system and I need 14 factions. One of the players wanted me to separate Harad, Umbar, Khand, and Variags all out--but they are all Men of the South, so I am looking for a new faction that functions more like Misty Mountains, Isengard, or Alatar's Army. If you can think of any leaders and have any books I can reference, please let me know.Thanks. Moran half valar (talk) 17:06, May 14, 2015 (UTC) :he didn't conquer the seven lands as far as i recall... another possibility would be angsars-Morthrog and Mithrisars in the east.I think some of the fan-modules cover such rival factions but I´m not really deep into that sub-creation stuff... means I haven't worked them through yet.--Haerangil (talk) 18:36, May 14, 2015 (UTC) Well when you do get time to find those things, please post an update to me. Thanks Haerangil. Moran half valar (talk) 03:14, May 15, 2015 (UTC) :not the this year... I´m still busy with the gazetteer and after that I´ll give the creatures another look..Haerangil (talk) 12:19, May 15, 2015 (UTC)